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 Post subject: Re: OBSERVATORY
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:07 am
Posts: 1045
Well I'm contemplating making it 6I so it isn't so easy to splash with.


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 Post subject: Re: OBSERVATORY
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:09 pm 
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Actually, there's a simple way : Switch Scry Pool and Observatory's abilities. Sure, it may make Scry Pool "Stupid Good", but just add flux costs. Bye bye "stupid good".


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 Post subject: Re: OBSERVATORY
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:47 am
Posts: 150
CaveTroll wrote:
I agree that the free vision ability could be a bad thing. But I must try it out before I can decide on agreeing with that it should get nerfed. So far I havent made or played agains any decks that prove this. Abd I still think Altar of Ix is better. Ix gives huge flux advantage, have the ability to sacrifice stolen creatures and it got vision. All of wich is a very nice trade for that one extra health and scrying ability.


I'm not arguing that it's more powerful than Altar of Ix - I haven't played against it enough to form an opinion.

In fact, I'm saying something more extreme: an ability that transforms the game as radically as "see practically whatever you want" does, should not appear on domain cards at all - regardless of power level - because these cards are included in many decks by definition.

Of course, if the card is nerfed to the point of unplayability then it won't be an issue, but that's not where we're trying to get.

Making the card need domain will alleviate the problem, but it will still be used in many decks, and not necessarily the decks that specifically want the ability, just the decks that can use the domain.

I think such a transformative ability should be relegated to dedicated cards (like Scry Pool). These cards, while ideally playable, should be at the bottom range of playability. That way, we'll have the ability in decks where it's specifically useful, but the exception will still be an exception, rather than randomly supplanting the rule in pure CI decks.


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 Post subject: Re: OBSERVATORY
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:10 am
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Or we could just give easy vision/anti-vision cards to all domains.


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 Post subject: Re: OBSERVATORY
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:47 am
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Zblader wrote:
Or we could just give easy vision/anti-vision cards to all domains.


If the problem was: "CI is OP", than this might fix it.

Since the problem is: "Easy vision makes many cards irrelevant, and the game less interesting", then this will only make it worse.


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 Post subject: Re: OBSERVATORY
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:46 pm 
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yaron wrote:
Zblader wrote:
Or we could just give easy vision/anti-vision cards to all domains.


If the problem was: "CI is OP", than this might fix it.

Since the problem is: "Easy vision makes many cards irrelevant, and the game less interesting", then this will only make it worse.


Sorry. I guess I'm on the extra domain for Observatory Bandwagon in that case.


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 Post subject: Re: OBSERVATORY
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:36 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:11 pm
Posts: 148
The MAIN problem with the card is theres no way to defend against it.....you cant tell what your oppoenent sees and what your oppoenent cant see....you dont know if ur about to catch a tremor or if youre about to catch a psychotic break.....Free vision is one thing.....not knowing where you stand in a game is ANOTHER. With creatures you know what u can see and ur opponent can see......but when ur opponent can just look around as he pleases and you have no idea if he knows where you are or if he doesnt......that removes so much from the game its ridiculous.......I would at least like to know if the opponent can see me if he is gonna use the ability for free every turn...otherwise there is nothing i can do to stop him from hitting me with whatever he pleases.....if hes about to tremor my building....i would like to know this....so that when he does i can prepare for it....if i spend all my flux on a creature then he tremors me im screwed. hence the term....So when u have the ability to look around as you please....at least with 1 flux that came at a price.....you couldnt simply just look around everywhere u want cause it would cost FLUX...the stuff that is important in winning the game. i Think whatever is in vision of observatory....should have a red circle around it when u hover over it......that way i will know if my oppoenent can see me or not....then i can play accordingly.......Red circle like the one for Ghost and its corpse.

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 Post subject: Re: OBSERVATORY
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:20 am
Posts: 235
what Monyx says makes aloth of sense. Maybe it can be fixed with only one hex revealed as someone suggested.

I also agree that giving it a CI reqiurement will not make it worse, just less used.


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 Post subject: Re: OBSERVATORY
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:10 am
Posts: 829
Alright , scratch me being on a bandwagon. Here's my new idea.

Changes

1a) Ability lasts until used again, but costs 2 flux each time and dims (it provides domain, which is already a lot.)
OR
1b) Ability lasts until used again, but has a 35% chance to fail, a 50% chance to reveal only 1 space, and a 15% chance to reveal the normal 7 hexes and requires dim. (Treat these two as separate ideas, just on the same ability).
2) Ability has an indicator showing the space it targeted, regardless if it's fogged to the opponent or not.
3) Oberservatory has 5 health.


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 Post subject: Re: OBSERVATORY
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:35 pm 
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The Dark Platypus
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Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:48 am
Posts: 951
With this latest change (CIX2), I don't see how it's a good card at all? It's not as good as Scrye Pool (which can be placed and give vision on the same turn for only 2 flux, whereas OB now takes 2 flux and a dim (so one turn later).

It doesn't give a good way to get that second splashable domain when you're playing another main domain and want to add CI in for something like bishop or a fun two domain flyer.

Say bye bye to all those land of dreams decks I was hoping to try out (It combos well with OTHER non-CI domains that want terrain, especially elemental...)

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I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

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