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 Post subject: Re: Soul Plague
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:11 am 
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Posts: 87
Keyser wrote:
I'll submit my other post (see above) that basically asks the question: Why do you feel that only creature cards are "related to the map"? There are many valid strategies that do not need to have creature spam all over the map, and such strategies are still map related.

By definition of winning by controlling more flux wells than your opponent, the game is map based.


Lots of enchantments and spells are map related. My point is that TFWs strength lies in the pattern of logic that revolves around the map. It's a lot about predictability, and about giving players good chances to react to each other. When one player puts an awesome creature out there, it creates tension, and the opponent has to choose how to deal with the situation. Next turn, that creature starts to move, and the action gradually unfolds within a predictable pattern. That's a lot better game design then the anticlimax of suddenly seeing all the creature patterns that's been built up disappear.

Here's an idea: make Soul Plague take effect over time. Make it a building that always becomes a construction site, and kills everything around it once completed. Build up tension, and give the opponent ways to deal with it.

Keyser wrote:
I say that any strategy that causes you to control more wells than your opponent in order to gain glory is valid. The only case I see where that isn't the case is the Benefits of Spectacle/White Elephant combo.


Any possible strategy is valid. The question is if it's good game design!

Keyser wrote:
Here's a puzzle for you. One of the better TFW players created a deck that involved placing Owl Vision on Great Elm, then putting Mana Dome and (ack! I forgot the name... the CI guy that won't let you target anything next to him) near it, surrounded the hexes adjacent with creatures.

Do you consider that a valid "strategy"? There is just about no way to defeat that "map based strategy" without a mass destruction card.


That's a very map based strategy, that has to be built up in stages. I see no anticlimax there at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Soul Plague
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:20 am
Posts: 235
Dublone1870 wrote:
Keyser wrote:
If that's your logic, then you also need to remove Culling of the Weak, Creeping Gloom, Lysis, Sunburst, Cloudburst, Flash Flood, Chambered Reef, Benefits of Spectacle, Knowing Despair, White Elephant, Volcanoe, The Hive, Astridian Forum, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...


Actually, I do think several of those cards - Cull the Weak, Knowing Despair, White Elephant, Astridian Forum - make the game less rather than more interesting. I'd be happy to change them into something more connected to the map. Cards like Lysis at least require vision, but I think one reason sealed/draft is popular is that constructed is dominated a bit too much by spells/enchantments.

Variation comes from lots of cards, and balancing that makes all of them show up in competitive play. Making cards more connected to the map wouldn't lessen variation.



Dublone speaks my mind too. Discard and alternate ways to get glory almost allways make boring games.


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 Post subject: Re: Soul Plague
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:12 am
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I'm resurrecting this old thread, as the problem still exists.

People say its flux and domain requirements are "high", but in most games it can be used for a much higher flux advantage than 6, not to even mention the card advantage and strategic advantage.

These are the problems I can see:

-The combo with Belfry of the Restless (and to a lesser extent, Nightmares) is a bit broken. If you used almost nothing but vampires, you will get them back for free soon enough, while the other player has to have either saved lots of flux and many creatures in hand or has to draw the creatures and gain enough flux for them somehow. The former isn't really an option, since if you refrain from casting some of your creatures, you will be very vulnerable to Lysis and simply superior numbers of vampires. The latter just can't be done except with a couple very niche cards.

-Building or glory gaining enchant based decks gain way too much from SP. I don't think this needs further explaining.

-It destroys domain giving creatures and creature enchantments. These cards (Faceless Lord, Vessel of Cathil, Astridian Diplomat) are vulnerable to a huge number of other spells and creatures anyway and don't give control, so they don't need something like Soul Plague to weaken them greatly. This brings us back to the powerful Altar of Ix, which isn't affected, and can be used to accelerate to the flux and domain requirement of SP very nicely, because you do not lose anything by sacrificing your creatures to Ix before casting SP.

"Too long; didn't read" version:Here's how to stop the combo with Belfry or Nightmares: Make the creatures destroyed by SP leave no corpse. This affects only cards that are too strong when comboed with SP.

Here's how to lessen SP's power in building decks: either add "You can't cast this spell unless you control 3 or more creatures" or change the wording to something like this: "X randomly chosen creatures controlled by each player are destroyed, where X can be no greater than the number of creatures you have in play". In this case it could just cost X.


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